Wednesday, June 06, 2007

Malaysia, After Lina Joy: A Dialogue

“To say that she is not under the jurisdiction of the Syariah Court – because she no longer professes Islam – is not appropriate... In other words, one cannot embrace or leave a religion according to one’s whims and fancies.”
  • Chief Justice Tun Ahmad Fairuz Sheikh Abdul Halim
“Illegal and unreasonable... to expect the appellant (Lina) to apply for a certificate of apostasy – when to do so would likely expose her to a range of offences under the Islamic law – is, in my view, unreasonable.”
  • Chief Judge of Sabah and Sarawak Datuk Richard Malanjum
“I am disappointed that the Federal Court is not able to vindicate a simple but important fundamental right that exists in all persons; namely, the right to believe in the religion of one's choice... The Federal Court has not only denied me that right but to all Malaysians who value fundamental freedoms.”
  • Lina Joy

Details of the Forum are as follows:
Date: 7 June 2007 (Thursday)
Time: 7.30pm
Venue: Armada Hotel, Petaling Jaya
Panel of Distinguished Speakers:
  • Ambiga Sreenevasan, Malaysia Bar Council President
  • Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim, PKR Secretary-General
  • Yusri Mohammad, President of Angkatan Belia Islam (ABIM)
  • Dr Azmi Sharom, Associate Professor, Universiti Malaya
  • Leonard Teoh, Legal Advisor to Malaysia's Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism (MCCBCHS)
  • Lim Kit Siang, Parliamentary Opposition Leader
  • Lim Guan Eng, DAP Secretary-General
Chairperson: Tony Pua



Anonymous said...

Got standard lah, holding the forum at Armada hotel!

Free dinner?

Anonymous said...

Halal ka?

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Again aaaa , why quote only from two judges, where is the third one.

Don't say I'm racist but provoked being racist by you..

got my drift...

Anonymous said...

Hi anon 9:24,

not only dinner free ma, many flower free also ma...

Towkey Tony Pua Kiam Wee sponsor ma

Anonymous said...

Anon 719, TP is true to form engaged in selective posting of information to create controversy but you see it as an attempt to lie. Pl note that he is just a politician wannabe, period - out to create conflict out of vacuum.

Andes Cheah said...

Hi, Tony,

I have my say here Who Were The EC Members' Primary Mathematics Teachers ?


Anonymous said...

anon 12:34 and 12:52, both of you have no sense of appreciation. After hectic sword crossing and bullshitting and big mouth talks,hiding under the sarong of anonymous as cowards, you call that self respect.Shame on you. For the rest please come to my chamber.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Simon Wee said...

Repeating for typo errors.

Gentlemen, as I have always said in my blogs, we must find common grounds for the future of Malaysia instead of wasting efforts on quarels on who is right and who is wrong. May be a new social contract as those constituting the majority were born after Aug 31 1957. There is definitely a better way to share the Malaysian cake. Let us do it now instead of being forced to do it by interested foreign powers.

Long live Malaysians.

Simon Wee said...

Dear bloggers,

Pls see my post on blogger challenging fellow blogger to sue him.

123 said...

Alas, the insidious effects of the Malaysian constitutional crisis in 1988 has definitely reverberated since, leaving such a foul stench to judicial independence and neutrality in Malaysia.

Anonymous said...

there is a saying about how a fool or a stupid person will have no cure. instead of barking abt "where is the 3rd judge's statements?", perhaps they could use whatever little grey matter remaining to understand that there were only 2 written judgements (majority, minority), and the 3rd judge concurred with the CJ. so, would it be better if TP just post up a REPEAT of the CJ's statement and attribute it to the 3rd judge?? pakai otak lar...

anyway, i notice lately a lot of these anon flamers hanging around a few popular blogs. if these are the gahmen cyber patrols, they're reflecting poorly on an already fumbling government.

Simon Wee said...

Nothing unsaid was said at last night forum:"Malaysia, After Lina Joy: A Dialogue Lina Joy"

However I am happy to note that it was one of the rare occasion where the audience was well represented by all the races.

The discerning sharp division of opinion between our Malay brothers/sisters and the non-moslem among the audience, pervaded the atmosphere at the Hotel Armada.

The Malays, quoting liberally from the Koran, maintained that Islam came as a package. There are procedures for entering and there are procedures for leaving.

The non-moslem on their part emphasized the fundemantal rights as enshrine in the constitution. For them the decision on Lina Joy is a violation of human rights.

There were a couple of Malays, like the 3 moslem speakers on the panel, maintaining a middle ground calling for healthy dialogue to solve the problem. One Malay even went to the extend of saying that the Shariah requirement, was only applicable in the High Court and the Court of Appeal. According to her the Federal Court had jurisdiction. As such she said the Federal Court decision was wrong.

The Muslim Organizations in Defence of Islam took the opportunity at the Forum to distribute their statement on the case. It advised that the decision should not be seen as a victory for Muslims and a loss for non-Muslims in Malaysia. It maintained that the decision should instead be seen as a rejection of an attempt to deconstruct and radically revamp the current formula.

The DAP through panel speaker Lim Kit Siang renewed its call for secular state status for Malaysia. He said a secular state should not be seen as against Islam but one that transcended religion to ensure Malaysia’s future.

Another panel speaker Lim Guan Eng described Lina Joy’s decision as one that had denied the individual a right guaranteed under the Constitution such as a right to freedom of conscience and choice of religion.

Ambiga Sreenevasan, Malaysia Bar Council President expressed her pessimism the protection of these fundamental rights following Lina Joy’s decision, however, on legal grounds.

The question of whether the decision was political, religious or legal in substance, was not directly tackled. Muslim alluded it as religious while the non-muslim implied it was political.

Ms Ambiga, on her part, maintained that it was a legal issue hijacked by the politicians.

In other words politicians meddling in a legal issue, and politicians meddling in religious issue and thus causing problems to Malaysians. However in the Malaysian context, it is obvious that such meddling is a manifestation of Malay phobia of the erosion of their political dominance in the country. They not only fear losing their numbers out of Islam but also fear of onslaught of other Muslim denominations such as Shitism and other “deviationist” sects.

“Healthy dialogue” as advocated by Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim, PKR Secretary-General, should address this issue otherwise we can talk until the cows come home…

Anonymous said...

I like anon 10:20 am comment very much.

tell me if you would like to delete those using very decent word for your side will get better treatment from you.

Or else this blog is very much like reading argument on public toilet wall.

Am I pulling your leg?


Anonymous said...

I think to win the next election DAP need to do 'rebranding exercise'
1 Modernize the party logo
2 Avoid using red colour or minimize
3 Add few malay faces
4 Have ceramahs which are not government or ' opposition parties' bashing
5 Make DAP a party for rakyat
6 Put in 'less extreme leaders's image of the NEW DAP
7 Appoint me as DAP party consultant and Image pro

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:28 pm

right on Lucy Lee

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

About Lina Joy, I read some frank comments in Dr. Syed Alwi's commentary but somehow, I couldn't post my comment in there. Tony, I hope I can post it here :-

It is nice to have the chance to see such frank comments over here. My opinion is religion should not come into play in politics as it is something very personal and God, if there is any, should not be used as a 'scape goat' for one's action. All our actions should be based on conscience, human touch and merit.

In Singapore, all things are based on merit and very little 'human touch'. It is 'no money no talk' kind of philosophy. Just can't blame Singapore on this simply because it cannot afford 'wastage'. I believe, if Singapore is of more human touch, then she can get sands from Malaysia / Indonesia, or even get raw water from Johor for free. Think about it, Dr Syed Alwi.

Malays, to my mind, is kind and easy to get around with by nature. It is just that, the BN are over zealous with NEP that corruption and malpractices seeped in and forget altogether meritocracy, which spoil the Malay's good nature. The size of the country's economy cake will only expand if we work hard and manage resources efficiently. Wealth that created by Chinese anywhere in the world are not come by chance and privileges. In fact, if without Chinese, Malaysia and the World, will not be as bullish as today. So, think about it, my Malay friends.

Anonymous said...

My friend, looks like without chinese the whole world will not prosper. But I prefer to remain kind and easy. So development should take the back seat if it spoils my good life.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7.28 is not Lucy Lee!!!

Lucy Lee is a pornstar...I am just a strong DAP supporter who admire Tony Pua as a future leader

Anonymous said...

dear anon 1126pm,

hehe i like your reasoning my friend! but this utopia of ours seems to be a fleeting vision of yesteryears. so here we are stuck in a rut and cant seem to get out of this sticky situation.

this "true malaysian" seem to be quite a supremist himself. you can either call the chinese a true parasite or the most conniving race fo all. the way i see it, all races are the same, but perhaps we chinese have ingrained in ourselves a survival instinct that we tend to thrive wherever we go.

nevertheless, its a truth that most chinese in malaysia call themselves malaysian aboveall and will be willing to defend this country with their life. the sad part is that, after such a long time, we are still regarded as pendatang, not by the malays but by the government who allows such ill feelings to fester.

Anonymous said...

The chinese definitely has the survival instinct and adapts everywhere with the host country except in Malaysia. However the defending part is a bit far fetched - there no money in this and it is life threatening. The pendatang issue is universal in this part of the world e.g in Indonesia, Philippines, Brunei or Thailand. Only singapore 's history recognised chinese of founder of the island state.

Anonymous said...

nevertheless, its a truth that most chinese in malaysia call themselves malaysian aboveall and will be willing to defend this country with their life. the sad part is that, after such a long time, we are still regarded as pendatang, not by the malays but by the government who allows such ill feelings to fester.

Well said, I fully agree with this comment, the main culprit is still lies on BN selfish policy to maintain bumis's ego with no consideration on meritocracy. Proton is an obvious failure example, engage the right candidate (disregards race) to run the company will solve the problem.

Anonymous said...

We dont want meritocracy nor development. Both do not not benefit me and my people.Just look at the top 50 richest persons in Malaysia - only 8 Malays and the rest are pendatang.

Anonymous said...

Meritocracy will not only benefit Malaysians (disregards race) but also provide rooms to compete globally. Look, without meritocracy, still the top 50 richest persons in Malaysia - only 8 Malays... Why? The reasons behind that are mainly right attitude and mindset. BN way of executing EDUCATION SYSTEM is a failure because it lowers the standard of education. Hopefully one day a great and far-sighted leader will turn the tide.

Anonymous said...

The right attitude should be;

1. Control all necessary item, and sell them at higher price to malay business setup but lower price to chinese's.

2. Buy all balak concession from the Malay, if Malay dont want to sell, boycot their balak dont allow kilang papan to buy.

3. Be orang tengah and control the price of commodities from malay farmer.

4. Use exccessive pasticide to the vegetable farm.

if you want more the list will never finish....

Anonymous said...

anon 1135, go on we are listening. My conclusion is say no to development and those that insist , tight control be imposed and be taxed heavily for the damage that ensue